I want to add context to what I shared yesterday (ig post), because a single post can’t hold the full history behind my views, and i got a bit of pushback from folks online that i wanted to address.
Thanks for expanding on your post. I think we have to consider our choices in this time of increased intentional bodily harm by the state. I don’t think anyone would wants to bring their children into harm’s way. I do think we need to calibrate our decision making in light of the increase in violence the state is using against peaceful protesters.
I appreciate this take a lot. As a new parent to a 7 month old, I naively thought about taking my family to this march but decided against it when I heard they were going to the ICE facility. Something that has also been bothering me about what happened is that if organizers assume they won’t experience state violence because the march is “peaceful”, does that mean others who have died by or been harmed by state violence weren’t “peaceful” and therefore deserved the violence inflicted upon them? Another thing I’ve been thinking about is how some of the most visible protests at the ICE building have been cartoonish like the jazzercise class and naked bike ride , leading people to believe that it’s just a big party and it’s safe to bring your family. “Only the bad protestors” have been getting gassed and brutalized. Sigh 😔.
yeah, exactly. it’s really unfair and honestly dangerous how people start sorting protesters into “good” and “bad,” as if state violence is ever deserved based on how someone shows up. that framing lets the state off the hook entirely.
i’m very much about a diversity of tactics and not policing people for taking risks i wouldn’t take myself. at the same time, i also have a pretty big eye roll toward a lot of the performative stuff down there. it’s not strategic and it’s not safe, and it can give people a false sense of security about what those spaces actually are.
really appreciate you engaging with this so thoughtfully, especially as a new parent. 🖤
Posting that how you did and when you did aligned you with the centrists and right wingers who immediately blame protestors for all of the violence that the state visits on them. If you have a problem with how people are protesting talk to them privately and if you can't, I frankly don't think it's your criticism to make. Significantly more people are seeing your post than are parents who made a decision you disagree with, and the message you're presenting is that it's the parents' fault that their children were hurt by DHS. Just admit it was a bad post and delete it.
also, i’m actually glad more people are seeing it. this isn’t only a conversation for parents. it’s important for the broader resistance to hear different perspectives, including how i understand harm reduction and diversity of tactics when we’re organizing against a fascist state.
i’m criticizing what i see as naivety and naming how dangerous that is, especially when kids and other vulnerable people are involved. the goal is to organize, protest and strategize better and safer.
my post wasn’t about saying anyone deserved what happened. it came from a place of harm reduction and from not wanting to see kids and other vulnerable people get hurt again. saying ICE is at fault is so beyond obvious, yea no kidding. we can’t control their behavior, we know they will respond violently, but we can keep each other safe and encourage each other to make safer choices for our comrades and families
you don’t have to agree with me, but this conversation matters, and i’m not going to pretend it shouldn’t be happening.
I don't think your intentions matter when you're criticizing people in the exact same way right wing grifters are, you're just adding to the immense amount of free floating criticism that protestors face constantly. Not everyone who sees your post has spent as much time protesting as you have and you are giving them more fuel to blame all protestors for violence at the hands of the state. Again I think that if you see a family in a situation that you think or know is unsafe, you should tell them. And if you want to criticize a bunch of strangers who just got brutalized by the police you should journal about it or something instead. Your post was up before I even made it home on Saturday! The external message at that point is "fuck ice", not "well you should have known you were going to be gassed". The correct message is probably, I don't know, empathy? Not scolding a bunch of strangers from your influencer account.
And it's straight up not a conversation anymore when you post something that makes people mad, turn comments off, and then use it as a way to drive traffic to your blog.
i don’t think this conversation is actually going anywhere, and that’s okay. i’ve explained my position pretty clearly and i don’t think we’re talking past misunderstanding so much as coming from fundamentally different frameworks.
i turned comments off because the same points were being rehashed over and over, but i’m still engaging in dialogue and responding where it feels constructive, including here. i also wrote a longer post so i could explain my thinking fully instead of arguing in fragments.
i’m not blaming protesters for state violence. the state is responsible for its violence. my stance is about harm reduction and strategy, and that hasn’t changed. i’m not going to delete what i said. i stand by it.
we don’t have to agree, but i’m not going to keep going in circles.
Incredible, to victim blame people who got tear gassed in the name of Palestine! Do you have any idea of the history of children's role in the Palestinian struggle? Palestinian people — including mothers and children — don't just sit around waiting to be bombed and cried about by liberals in Portland, Oregon. They protest and they struggle. The Great March of Return was led by youth. The defining image of the Second Intifada is children throwing stones at IOF soldiers!
i agree, i think we must be mindful when we talk about other people’s realities and struggles, especially palestinians. i’m still standing by what i said though. palestinian children are born into that situation. they do not consent to it. their resistance is about survival under occupation, not choice.
that’s also true for many Black and immigrant communities here who live with state violence and fear as a daily reality. they don’t get to opt out.
the difference i’m naming is choice. the parents who brought their children there did have other options. and that matters when we’re talking about harm reduction.
and i’ll keep saying this until i’m blue in the face: the state should not use violence on any protesters. ever. but they do. pretending otherwise doesn’t protect anyone.
Thanks for expanding on your post. I think we have to consider our choices in this time of increased intentional bodily harm by the state. I don’t think anyone would wants to bring their children into harm’s way. I do think we need to calibrate our decision making in light of the increase in violence the state is using against peaceful protesters.
I appreciate this take a lot. As a new parent to a 7 month old, I naively thought about taking my family to this march but decided against it when I heard they were going to the ICE facility. Something that has also been bothering me about what happened is that if organizers assume they won’t experience state violence because the march is “peaceful”, does that mean others who have died by or been harmed by state violence weren’t “peaceful” and therefore deserved the violence inflicted upon them? Another thing I’ve been thinking about is how some of the most visible protests at the ICE building have been cartoonish like the jazzercise class and naked bike ride , leading people to believe that it’s just a big party and it’s safe to bring your family. “Only the bad protestors” have been getting gassed and brutalized. Sigh 😔.
yeah, exactly. it’s really unfair and honestly dangerous how people start sorting protesters into “good” and “bad,” as if state violence is ever deserved based on how someone shows up. that framing lets the state off the hook entirely.
i’m very much about a diversity of tactics and not policing people for taking risks i wouldn’t take myself. at the same time, i also have a pretty big eye roll toward a lot of the performative stuff down there. it’s not strategic and it’s not safe, and it can give people a false sense of security about what those spaces actually are.
really appreciate you engaging with this so thoughtfully, especially as a new parent. 🖤
Posting that how you did and when you did aligned you with the centrists and right wingers who immediately blame protestors for all of the violence that the state visits on them. If you have a problem with how people are protesting talk to them privately and if you can't, I frankly don't think it's your criticism to make. Significantly more people are seeing your post than are parents who made a decision you disagree with, and the message you're presenting is that it's the parents' fault that their children were hurt by DHS. Just admit it was a bad post and delete it.
also, i’m actually glad more people are seeing it. this isn’t only a conversation for parents. it’s important for the broader resistance to hear different perspectives, including how i understand harm reduction and diversity of tactics when we’re organizing against a fascist state.
i’m criticizing what i see as naivety and naming how dangerous that is, especially when kids and other vulnerable people are involved. the goal is to organize, protest and strategize better and safer.
my post wasn’t about saying anyone deserved what happened. it came from a place of harm reduction and from not wanting to see kids and other vulnerable people get hurt again. saying ICE is at fault is so beyond obvious, yea no kidding. we can’t control their behavior, we know they will respond violently, but we can keep each other safe and encourage each other to make safer choices for our comrades and families
you don’t have to agree with me, but this conversation matters, and i’m not going to pretend it shouldn’t be happening.
I don't think your intentions matter when you're criticizing people in the exact same way right wing grifters are, you're just adding to the immense amount of free floating criticism that protestors face constantly. Not everyone who sees your post has spent as much time protesting as you have and you are giving them more fuel to blame all protestors for violence at the hands of the state. Again I think that if you see a family in a situation that you think or know is unsafe, you should tell them. And if you want to criticize a bunch of strangers who just got brutalized by the police you should journal about it or something instead. Your post was up before I even made it home on Saturday! The external message at that point is "fuck ice", not "well you should have known you were going to be gassed". The correct message is probably, I don't know, empathy? Not scolding a bunch of strangers from your influencer account.
And it's straight up not a conversation anymore when you post something that makes people mad, turn comments off, and then use it as a way to drive traffic to your blog.
i don’t think this conversation is actually going anywhere, and that’s okay. i’ve explained my position pretty clearly and i don’t think we’re talking past misunderstanding so much as coming from fundamentally different frameworks.
i turned comments off because the same points were being rehashed over and over, but i’m still engaging in dialogue and responding where it feels constructive, including here. i also wrote a longer post so i could explain my thinking fully instead of arguing in fragments.
i’m not blaming protesters for state violence. the state is responsible for its violence. my stance is about harm reduction and strategy, and that hasn’t changed. i’m not going to delete what i said. i stand by it.
we don’t have to agree, but i’m not going to keep going in circles.
Incredible, to victim blame people who got tear gassed in the name of Palestine! Do you have any idea of the history of children's role in the Palestinian struggle? Palestinian people — including mothers and children — don't just sit around waiting to be bombed and cried about by liberals in Portland, Oregon. They protest and they struggle. The Great March of Return was led by youth. The defining image of the Second Intifada is children throwing stones at IOF soldiers!
i agree, i think we must be mindful when we talk about other people’s realities and struggles, especially palestinians. i’m still standing by what i said though. palestinian children are born into that situation. they do not consent to it. their resistance is about survival under occupation, not choice.
that’s also true for many Black and immigrant communities here who live with state violence and fear as a daily reality. they don’t get to opt out.
the difference i’m naming is choice. the parents who brought their children there did have other options. and that matters when we’re talking about harm reduction.
and i’ll keep saying this until i’m blue in the face: the state should not use violence on any protesters. ever. but they do. pretending otherwise doesn’t protect anyone.